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 Post subject: sad tale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:47 am 
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EGG
EGG

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:56 am
Posts: 11
hi folks,

i recently introduced myself to this group with the query that my new beardie seemed to be struggling to cope with relocation.......if only that were the problem.....

i got masses of support and brilliant advice here...thank-you rick....



(rambling) update...i have been up all night too upset to sleep....


over the last few days i saw minor tremors in little mans left forefoot and in his head. i said to my son that i thought little man had mbd. i have had only one beardie before so have little experience with the species....but..... i read extensively...esp i read *before* i took on my first beardie ... and being from a healthcare background *and* being a person who has had osteomalacia herself (the best human equivalent to mbd i can imagine) i did feel i was sensible enough to understand what a beardie needed to keep him well.....i now know also what signs to look out for to ensure i don't take on a less than healthy beardie again - having learned the hard way.



before my vet appt yesterday am, i spoke again to lizard man to ask about the prev husbandry - i knew my vet would need as much info on his prev care as possible......lizard mans husbandry was poor because the dragon was effectively not getting uv light because his uv was being filtered through glass - no amount of supplementation makes up for this - esp when the sole diet due to little beardies fussiness was phosphate rich, calcium binding, meal worms. it's also likely that the husbandry prior to lizard man taking on beardie was poor. the vet pointed out that little mans tail which i had noticed was rounder at the tip than most beardies tails, showed signs of less than adequate bone health from an early age - vet thought the tip had been broken off at some stage. beardie was also missing half of one of his very long toes. i thought he might have been fighting, but it now looks more likely that it was broken due to poor bone density.

anyhow, the bottom line is that little man did *not* have a dedicated uv light in his viv. his uv provision was through glass!!!!!!! i am at this point trying to contain my anger.......it will do no good....... little man lived with lizard man for six months, and showed no actual signs of growth in that time....yet lizard man never considered that this runting had a cause!!!!!.....

when i phoned lizard man to tell him that little man had mbd his comment was....'but he was fine with me'......

i tried to explain to lizard man that prey animals (which i believe beardies are in the wild) can appear really well till they are at deaths door, but lizard man seemed resistant to any implication that i was not the cause of little mans problems.....when i politely asked lizard man, in the light of what has happened, to ensure that his other bearded dragon has a uv tube IN her viv and not through the glass he snapped at me 'of course she has her own uv light!!!! so if he knows how important it is for his adult beardie, why did he not provide the same for his juvenile beardie??


at the vets appt it was confirmed that little man had mbd and that it was at an advanced stage.

vet prescribed intense feed and mega calcium.....by tube.... she told us little man had very little chance, but we could try to save him. we were told if no improvement in 2 weeks he had to be euthanised .....we got him home and tube fed him once.....no problem.... and he seemed ok after second tube feed in the later afternoon, but when i went to check on him 15 mins later he was in a horrid position in viv....not natural....and he had vomited up feed....he then had a fit and looked dead....totally limp and droopy.....

we took him back to vet who said he was 'just' alive, but that if he was fitting, his calcium levels were too low to be survivable and that he he needed to be euthanised right away.....

i love my pets, i trust my vet, i had to agree.... i could see he was not in a survivable situation and i didn't want him to suffer any more.......

......i didn't get to know little man as he was sick and anorexic within 12 hours of me getting him, so it shouldn't hurt so much to lose him.....but it does...........



i haven't yet told reptile man that dragon has died....but i have to let him know....i must try to do so without the anger i'm feeling......

reptile man wasn't willing to accept that his husbandry regarding uv provision is poor....he doesn't need to admit to me that his care was less than optimal, but if he doesn't admit it to himself, he will make the same error again and other reptiles will suffer.....


my heart is breaking at the loss of a second beardie in 3 weeks....little man did not go easily...it was truly horrific seeing him fit...i've lost many pets over my lifetime, but rarely have i had to go through such a distressing experience as i did watching little man deteriorate and die.......and it was so avoidable.....and reptile man keeps implying that as little man was alert when he brought him to me that any health issues are my fault........i know that my care is not what led to little mans demise....


lessons learned from this sad experience are that i know much better what seemingly innocuous signs can point to a beardie in less that optimal health, so my next beardie will hopefully be a healthy one, and that the new vet at my surgery who specialises in exotics is knowledgeable and supportive.


thanks for listening to my rambling....

take care
joy
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 Post subject: Re: sad tale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:27 pm 
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Site Admin
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:04 pm
Posts: 6794
Location: Essex
Oh, I'm so sorry to read this and for your loss. Obviously there was nothing you could do, but you tried your best.

Lizard man obviously didn't have a clue about bearded dragons, and must have ignored the symptoms before you got him.

I hope this doesn't put you off keeping beardies - I do know that there are very many in rescue, and with all the knowledge you've now gained you could give a very good home to one.

thank you for sharing this sad story - it shows how important UV is to a beardie, and that they should have the right food, and calcium supplements particularly when growing fast.

RIP poor little beardie.

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Trish

Bearded Dragon: Fiona
R.I.P Shrek and Stumpy - you are sadly missed.

For articles and useful information about how to care for Bearded Dragons visit the main site: http://www.mybeardeddragons.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: sad tale
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:13 am
Posts: 7554
Location: Victoria Australia
So sorry to hear that. Regretfully there's nothing much you can do about the previous owner other than tell him that MBD develops over months not days and that your specialist vet has confirmed that it would take some long time to get as bad as it was. You've got to wonder what sort of UV his other dragon has and if he even realises that it needs replacing frequently!

Rick

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Beardies from an Australian point of view.
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 Post subject: Re: sad tale
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:20 am 
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EGG
EGG

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:56 am
Posts: 11
Hi rick and trish,

thanks for what you have both said.

i'm def not put off beardies - quite the opposite - they are fascinating, rewarding little animals. and they get right under your skin....

i will phone lizard man tonight....that will be awkward, but since telling him that little man had mbd he has had time to consider the diagnosis. i am actually thinking now that some of lizard mans defensiveness when i pointed out AGAIN that uv doesn't pass through glass is guilt because he realises that while this illness may have been made manifest by the shock of relocation, the reason it developed goes back a long way and is entirely due to poor husbandry. had little man stayed with lizard man, he might have lived a bit longer, but i believe he was already suffering. i'm just sorry that i din't get him sooner.

it's very confusing that lizard man could get uv prov so wrong with little man. he was indignant when i asked him if his other dragon had an in viv uv light. his response was a snappy 'of course she has'. and when he brought little man here, he checked my spare uv tubes to ensure i had the right sort. he told me i must replace them after 9 or 10 months. i told him they are replaced 6 monthly without fail.

i do wonder if lizard man has just taken on more reptiles than he can cope with. this is not kindness.....


lizard man runs the only reptile rescue in this area so my next beardie will have to be from a store. the only local place which i would buy a reptile from (only about 15 miles from me) doesn't often have beardies, so i am going go the very good reptile store in the next county down from me. i've already spoken to them at length and i am confident that they know what they are doing.
as soon as i said i wanted a beardie i was hit with a barrage of questions as to who would be caring for it and how. this makes me feel that they are concerned about the animals welfare - not just making a profit...


thanks again for the support
joy
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