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 Post subject: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:30 pm 
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EGG
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hi there, i have recently joined this forum because im seeking advice. my beardie is female,a sandfire/tiger cross and is roughly 16-17 months old. last year she had coxcidia which was treated and cured.. the vet told me the viv was too big and that i should down size so i did.. to a viv,3ft long x 2ft high x 1 1/2ft deep.changing the heatimg and lighting aswell in the process... from an arcadia d3 100w basking lamp to a strip light and a ceiling mounted radiator which is a lot better for controlling temps. at about nov/dec time she went into what i was told was broomanation. she sat in the cold corner of her viv either sleeping all the time or digging. its now the start of may and she hasnt got much better.she was eating ok ish until about a month or so ago but still just wanted to sleep or dig.now she wont eat much at all... she just sits facing the corner of the viv with her head on the floor.she has lost all her zest for life,severe lack of energy.i still get her out daily to interact with her,she doesnt run about she will just sit on my knee vey still.she gets bathed twice a week and is given fresh veg every day(which she doesnt touch). is my beardie depressed or ill.some friends have said that changing the viv was a mistake,others have said she needs to breed. as when males get depressed its said that if you put a female in with them and the perk up virtually straight away.. im very worried about her and i need some one ,any one to point me in the best direction. because apart from having to trust a very greedy vet ive exhausted all other options.
any advise will be appreciated
thanks


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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 12:53 am 
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:13 am
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Location: Victoria Australia
We did respond to this when you originally added it to the end of another post. However we'll try again for you.

Probably best to go back to basics here. Firstly can you put up a photo of your set up and tell us what your temps are on the basking spot and cool end, when do lights go on and off and do you allow temps to drop over night? I'd also suggest changing your vet as there's no such thing as a viv to large for a beardie and coccidia treatment should be a short course of medicine and fixed! Once I've seen the vivs I can probably fix things fairly simply for you. One step that you can take is to get another check on her/him for parasites using a good relatively cheap lab. This link will take you there http://www.palsvetlab.co.uk I've just finished treating ours for coccidia and it was a quite cheap and simple, fecal float to diagnose then a three day course of Bactrim, three days off and another three day course and finished. Total cost $60.00 approx for four adult dragons.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:58 am 
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EGG
EGG

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:02 pm
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hi there rick.first off thanks for getting back to me.ok then i'll start with the viv sizes. i went from a viv that was 2 1/2 ft high x 3ft long x 2 ft deep to a viv that is 1 1/2 ft high x 3 ft long x 1 1/2 ft deep.. the temp at the basking end is 37 c and roughly 24-26 c at the cool end.during the day the top temp hovers around 35.5-37.00 c and at night it hovers around 22-24 c. because i work long hours and dont gedt home till 6ish her light comes on at 9.40 am and goes off 9.40 pm i stopped using that vet i was made to feel like a cash cow but unfortunatly thier arent any other any more vets close to methat specialize in reptiles..i also went from a d3 100w basking lamp to a uv strip light and ceiling mounted radiator...
i tried to upload some pictures but it wouldnt happen... im not that computer minded.


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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:22 am 
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OK despite what your vet advised an adult dragon really needs a viv at least 4ft long so the best you can do is move him back into the larger viv. Next your temps need to be higher at the basking spot - around 39~42C, your cool side mid 20's. Next the lighting/heating UV supply should be at least 10% UV and if you can fit a 12% Arcadia then even better, for heating a 60 or 75 watt RO80 spotlight is best as dragons tend to bask under bright light not always the hot spot which seems to be what is wrong with your guy. I'd never recommend a ceiling mounted heater as you just don't get the right concentration of heat nor do you get the light that will attract them to the correct area - this in turn doesn't let them digest food properly and you end up with a crook dragon. I'd still recommend you get the fecal float done and depending on the result phone around for someone competent to treat reptiles. Make the changes re light/heat in the larger viv and I think you'll soon find you have a happier dragon.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:54 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Southport uk
Poor Beardie and another stupid Pet shop owner and Vet :x The good thing is you came to THIS GREAT FORUM :) your Dragons health and wellbeing is paramount on here and the experts are the best :) Please let us know how you go on as we all care and are a friendly forum :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:15 pm 
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hi there,ive been looking for the ro 80 spot light that you spoke of.. but i cant seem to find it.would it be under a different name?.i have a few questions, can that bulb be temp controlled.. the d3 basking lamp couldnt be temp controlled..where as the raidiator would switch on and off when it needed to..my house gets cold in winter and the radiator was good for keeping night time temps at the right level as well how would that be possible if i went back to a basking lamp?
thanks again for your help and time ,im very appreciative as im very worried for my beardie..


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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:43 pm 
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The light is a bog standard spotlight that you can get from any supermarket and they are controllable using a thermostat. However f you do use a thermostat use a dimming one as the bulb lasts longer and the dragon doesn't get confused by lights going on and off. Overnight temps can safely drop to 16C and in fact dragons do need this drop to enable them to sleep properly.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:50 pm 
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EGG

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:02 pm
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now im very confused.. so am i right in saying your telling me to buy an ordinary 75w bulb.. that goes against everything ive been told so far..if a normal bulb gives of enough heat why do people buy basking lights and such like..it seems the more ive learned in this last year from breaders,books,vets, owners n reptile shop owners,the more im getting confused.everybody says something different.. as soon as i get the heating n lighting sorted i need to put her back into her big viv.but i need to get it right.her little brain is going to be done in with all this chopping and changing..

andi


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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:18 am 
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To adequately heat a viv for a dragon this is all you need http://www.lightbulbs2u.com/100w-es-ro80-p-170.html it does the same as any spotlight with pictures of reptiles on the box and costs far less. I don't know who you've been talking to so can't really comment on what you've been told, however the accepted industry standard for one adult dragon is a viv measuring 1200 mm x 600 mm x 600 mm, UVA/B at 10% or better and a heat gradient at 39~42C on the basking spot dropping to mid 20's at the cool end. Almost every long term owner/breeder will confirm that they prefer a light to bask under and if the heat supply is not provided by a spotlight of some sort then they will probably sit under the UV instead of basking properly.
This is the standard set up I use and this year alone I raised 60 babies successfully - all I can do is offer my advice based on years of "hands on" experience. One thing I will say and that is most vets in the UK have no practical idea as to what they're doing with dragons and personally I think I've only come across 2 or 3 that I'd trust to even diagnose a case of red mites on a beardie.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:54 pm
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Location: Southport uk
I thing everyone agrees with Rick on the forum and as Bearded Dragon Owners we owe it to our Dragons to care for their needs the best we can :)

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:33 pm 
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EGG
EGG

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:02 pm
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hi there, first off i dont want you to think im condeming your advise.. not at all,this is my first beardie so this is a big learning curve for me and i just want to get it right. ive been told so many different things for so long,my head is swiming at times and with the stress of not really knowing whats wrong with my lizard my heads all over the place with worry.
so im going to put her back in the big viv, im buying the bulb from that link that you sent and for the uv,uvb i will install the strip light on the back wall and im hoping it will bring about some change for the better.should i be buying a normal bulb fitting for this bulb or do i just put it into the bulb fitting that the d3 basking lamp was in.i still need to find a way of controlling the temps with a thermostat,i know you mentioned using a dimmer so will source one of them tomorrow
cheerz for your time.ill let you know how it works out
andi.


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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:54 pm
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Location: Southport uk
Habistat dimming thermostat ; look on e-bay or Amazon :) and if your holder is a screw fitting it should be ok :) I have an Arcadia screw fitment (off Amazon) . Im sure you will see a difference in your Dragon :) and many of us have been were you are , it is confusing but once all sorted you will reap the rewards :lol: :lol: Every one here is friendly :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:46 am 
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I know how confusing it can be especially when you talk to people in shops who should know what they're doing. However my experience with UK shops is that they know a little about most reps they sell but really only enough to be dangerous with the advice they hand out. As for vets, many advise that they will treat reps but honestly their knowledge is less than mine. Everything I suggest is based on personal experience together with knowledge obtained from a Reptile Specialist vet here in Aus. plus of course observation of their actual living conditions in the wild. Hopefully what I've described as a basic set up will brighten your guy up once he's settled down.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:02 pm
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hi there rick.i did what you surgested.. she's now back in the big viv with the bulb you told me about on a dimmer/thermo .unfortunatly she isnt getting any better. its been about a week now and she will not venture out of the cold corner of her viv.she wont eat..the only thing she is doing is digging and sleeping.she looks so sad just sitting with her head on the floor with her face hidden.im really starting to go out of my mind with worry,i feel helpless.sometimes she perks up when i get her out but mostly she just tries to burry herself in me.when i first got her she was 6 months old.. she had a very healthy appitite,she was very lively and alert.then after she got over her coxcidia it was christmas and she went into broomination.shes been the same ever since.its getting to the point when i have to consider force feeding her bugs n veg..inthe last month alone she has only eatin 4-6 locusts 5-6 wax worms and no veg. she hasnt eatin so she hasnt pooed so i cant send her stools of to be examined
i dont want my beardie to get any worse.do you have any more surgestions
andi


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 Post subject: Re: depressd beardie
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:03 am 
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OK how are the temps - 39C on the basking spot and mid 20's cool side? Any chance of a photo and I strongly suggest getting a fecal float done (if you can get a poo sample) as I mentioned earlier. Have you tried tempting with some meal worms - I know they're not the best but at least you may get her eating something that way.

Rick

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