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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:53 pm 
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EGG
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:16 pm
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It makes me smile when everyone says 'don't let them brumate' if they are too young. My Rankin's is currently brumating - he/she started back in early November at the grand old age of 12 weeks :? . I did everything I could possibly think of to stop him but the instant my back was turned he was back burying under the kitchen roll at the cool end of his viv!

After having a fecal test done to make sure he was healthy I've just had to go with it. I've kept his lights on a normal daytime routine - 10 hours at the mo and I wake him up every Saturday, warm him up and give him a good drink and a little soak in a warm bowl of water. Often he'll eat one or two small locust which I dust with Nutrobal to get a few vits and a little D3 in him and then he goes back in his viv. I have to sit there for a couple of hours to stop him burying himself again straight away as I want him to get a little heat and UV light and then he's off and fast asleep until the next week!

He's doing fine though and hasn't lost any weight at all (he's a HUGE 12g!!) It was really scary and horrible at first though - I thought he was dead at the beginning because he was so cold and stiff and didn't look like he was breathing :shock: . I realise now that brumating doesn't simply mean asleep, but the whole metabolism slows down, including their breathing. We're first time lizard owners and didn't know they did this at all so I was soooo nervous the first few weeks and kept checking him every hour :) !

Sam


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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:57 am 
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:13 am
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Location: Victoria Australia
The danger you face by feeding him is failure to properly digest his food. You do need to watch that he's defecating regularly. I agree that if they decide to brumate then there's nothing you can do but for 1st time owners I would not recommend going the whole way with temp reductions etc. As I explained on another forum, normally they would have had up to 5 months growth in the wild, all the weaklings would have been culled and those remaining would have a reasonable chance of surviving winter. We breed/hatch them all year round and keep even the smallest ones alive which is why brumation for the young is not recommended if at all possible.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:00 pm 
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EGG
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:16 pm
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Thanks for that Rick, I really appreciate all the advice I get from more experienced keepers. He had a massive poo after I woke him up yesterday. Must be because I cleaned his viv out for him :D .

He didn't eat anything yesterday or last week but as his weight is remaining stable, I'm happy. He's gone back to sleep but not deeply at the moment. Instead of hiding under the paper he is under a log where it's a little shady. I can see him and he's not asleep as he opens one eye when I walk past. I'm hoping it means he's getting ready to wake up but it may be more likely he's feeling a little disturbed as I emptied his viv out yesterday, cleaned everything, added new background and his log is in a slightly different place. We'll see.

We'd only had him about five weeks before he decided to go to sleep and we miss him. Actually he belongs to my eight-year-old daughter and she's well fed up at only seeing him once a week!

Thanks again for the advice

Sam


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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:07 pm
Posts: 17
Hi again Michael,

I'm not exactly sure how to put a message on the web-site.
Our dragon which is an adult has been hiding away since October only coming out occasionally or when we take him out. I didn't realize they did this in winter I asked the pet shop and they said no take him out don't let him hide away. I know after reading articles on your web site that this is called Brumation. I should have let him be instead of taking him out of his hiding place. Also do I have to change the temperature in the tank? He never ever eats fruit & veg and rarely goes to the loo! Any suggestions?

Thanks Heather


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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:28 pm 
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Location: Victoria Australia
At this stage he should be starting to liven up a bit and showing more interest in his surroundings. What are your temps currently?

Rick

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:14 pm
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Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire UK
Kathryn wrote:Thanks Rick thats really interesting. :D

Hi Rick,

Just read your article on brumation, and i think Mr Magoo may be doing this, as he is sleepy not eating very well, not touching his greens at all, but he's not hiding in the cool area either, pooing every few days - yesterday he had a massive poo like 3 in one go.
Not sure what to do as he is the first Beardie i've ever had he's between 2 & 3 years old. Do you think he could be going into brumation, any help you can give me would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks Krissy.

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Bearded Dragon 'Mr Magoo' rescue.
Amel corn 'Syd' rescue.
Carolina corn 'Missie' rescue.
2 German Sheperds - 1 male Kai - 1 female Mollie
6 African Land Snails rescued.
11 Tropical fish. Including 2 golden nugget plecko's
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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:09 am 
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Hi Krissy,

Honestly I don't think that this is the problem as brumation is guided by the seasons. So unless you've had a very long spell of cold/low air pressure type weather there is no reason for him to be doing this. It's more likely to be PMS (pre-moult syndrome), a drastic change in his viv., worms or (hopefully not) something more serious.
If it's not the first two suggestions, then get a fecal float done. If that come up negative, then you need to think about a vet visit for a thorough check-up. All this assumes that your temps are set up correctly of course.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:14 pm
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Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire UK
Rick wrote:Hi Krissy,

Honestly I don't think that this is the problem as brumation is guided by the seasons. So unless you've had a very long spell of cold/low air pressure type weather there is no reason for him to be doing this. It's more likely to be PMS (pre-moult syndrome), a drastic change in his viv., worms or (hopefully not) something more serious.
If it's not the first two suggestions, then get a fecal float done. If that come up negative, then you need to think about a vet visit for a thorough check-up. All this assumes that your temps are set up correctly of course.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Thank you for your reply, no i can see it wouldn't be brumation now it's to hot here ! Guess i'm looking for anything that will tell me why his behaviour has changed.
It would seem that it is more likely to be the PMS syndrome, apparently when they start to moult around the head & neck area it causes them to go of there food, i didn't know this, he will eat if i hand feed him, but will not try to catch or hunt for himself, also told it can last for about 3 weeks.
I've also found a reptile vet in my area in case i need to go down the road of a fecal test. Temps are all ok !
Feel a bit happier now, just wish he'd get back to his normal self.
Quite hard lives these reptiles have the effort involved in shedding is amazing, we have a snake too the time & trouble he takes to shed is exhausting.
But thank you for your help Rick it made me look into things more closely, and understand what is going on, for now i'll carry on hand feeding him, if he doesn't want it he turns away, so i know he'll only eat it if he's hungry !!

Many thanks
Krissy.

_________________
Bearded Dragon 'Mr Magoo' rescue.
Amel corn 'Syd' rescue.
Carolina corn 'Missie' rescue.
2 German Sheperds - 1 male Kai - 1 female Mollie
6 African Land Snails rescued.
11 Tropical fish. Including 2 golden nugget plecko's
11 Goldfish allsorts.


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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:02 pm 
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JUVENILE
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire UK
Rick wrote:Hi Krissy,

Honestly I don't think that this is the problem as brumation is guided by the seasons. So unless you've had a very long spell of cold/low air pressure type weather there is no reason for him to be doing this. It's more likely to be PMS (pre-moult syndrome), a drastic change in his viv., worms or (hopefully not) something more serious.
If it's not the first two suggestions, then get a fecal float done. If that come up negative, then you need to think about a vet visit for a thorough check-up. All this assumes that your temps are set up correctly of course.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Just a quick update on Mr Magoo, he's back to his normal self now eating his hoppers and veg thank god, that couple of weeks did have us a bit worried.
Had noticed a big piece of skin coming of his neck seems to be all gone now so hoping that was the problem PMS but will still keep an eye on him.
Want to put some tiles and a big rock in his viv, should i wait a little while ?

Thank you so much for all your help, it's so nice to know there's someone you can talk to and can always help with your worries however small.

Krissy

_________________
Bearded Dragon 'Mr Magoo' rescue.
Amel corn 'Syd' rescue.
Carolina corn 'Missie' rescue.
2 German Sheperds - 1 male Kai - 1 female Mollie
6 African Land Snails rescued.
11 Tropical fish. Including 2 golden nugget plecko's
11 Goldfish allsorts.


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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:27 pm 
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EGG
EGG

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:53 pm
Posts: 1
Location: ESSEX
THANKYOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR QUICK REPLY. I FEEL BAD NOW THAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET OTIS TO EAT AND BE MORE ACTIVE WHEN ALL HE REALLY NEEDS IS A REST(I KNOW THE FEELING). AT LEAST I HAVE GOTTEN HIM CHECKED OUT OUT FOR PEACE OF MIND, BUT AFTER YOUR REPLY I AM GOING TO CANCEL MY NEXT APPOINTMENT WITH THE VET. I DID ASK HER IF SHE WAS A SPECIALIST AND SHE SAID SHE IS AND SHE ALSO DID MENTION BRUMATION, BUT THE BOOK THEY HAD ONLY MENTIONED FALSE BRUMATION FOR BREEDING.
I WILL TAKE YOUR ADVICE AND SEE HOW HE GOES, THANKS AGAIN AT LEAST I KNOW WHERE TO COME FOR HELP IN THE FUTURE. MANY THANKS

P.S SORRY FOR THE PERSONAL E MAIL BUT AS I AM NEW I WASN'T SURE HOW TO POST MY QUESTION FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE.


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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:13 am
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Location: Victoria Australia
No problem!

One other thing though, take the 'Caps Lock' off on your keyboard please as it's considered shouting when typing in caps :D

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:26 pm 
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EGG
EGG

Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:56 pm
Posts: 8
Location: swadlincote
hi my oldest seems to have gone off his food hes about 19-20 months old the other 2 have not at all one is 10 months the other is abot 12 months unsure of there age as such but thats what ive been told
im guess hes just doing his thing now as hes not losing weight or looking unhealthy he just seems to sleep under things in his viv so will follow advice glad i joined the forum now cheers :P

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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:10 pm 
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EGG
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Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:22 pm
Posts: 17
Hi all!

My beardie is around 12 months old and a fairly good size I think! He is 15.5. inches and 308 grams now.
He just stopped eating and then curled up in the corner under the wood there and has slept since! Is this brumation? He sometimes opens his eyes slightly on a good day. He has been like this for a week now.

There is another beardie in the viv who is still active and he seems to lay next time him in the night. Is that normal?

Thanks

Claire


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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:13 am
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Location: Victoria Australia
At this time of year (for you) it's not normal, your dragon should be up and around unless the weather has been particularly bad for the last week. If he hasn't been affected by weather then there are two other common causes, intestinal parasites will put them off food and leave them pretty lethargic getting a fecal float done by a vet will check this out. The other is bullying by the other beardie, they can do this just by looks and posture and the submissive beardie will stay in a corner usually in the cold and basically fade away. The only solution here is to separate them.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: Brumation
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:03 pm 
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EGG
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Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:22 pm
Posts: 17
Thanks Rick much appreciated!

I will get a test done at the vets asap. Now the other one is curled up right next to him and seems to be going the same way. It has been very cold here the last few weeks - was a nice week last week and sunny here but the heating in my house is out of order and therefore the house has been particularly cold but temps in the viv are fine - nice gradient.

The only thing he considers is waxworms but after reading your advice I wont feed them due to them not digesting food properly if it is brumation.

I will also seperate them and see how that goes, but they seem very friendly and I have watched them feed together and bask and both have the same amount of food and are just as confident as eachother - but as you say it could be just a look from one beardie to the other!!

Thanks for the advice much appreciated :D


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